“The spirit of destroying what we’ve already accomplished and trying new things. That’s the true spirit of rock.”
-I have a simple question first. Do you often read through other members’ interviews?
S: I read them occasionally. While thinking “Oh right, they’re appearing in this month’s issue,” I’ll go to the bookstore and get the issue.
-Speaking of which, what did you think of Shou’s recent interview?
S: Actually I haven’t read it yet. However, I heard he spoke his true feelings. During band interviews I think to myself, “It’s ok if I don’t say anything here,” so I won’t say much. I’ll also have thoughts such as, “This part definitely won’t appear in the article,” so as expected I’ll only say those things here. [laugh] If I consolidate my thoughts here, they’ll be better transmitted to everyone. Of course we always speak with true intentions in mind, but when there’s 5 of us together, we try to speak from the band’s point of view to respect that unified spirit. It’s a bit different from individual interviews.
-After transferring companies, you’ve released a single for 3 consecutive months. This current time is crucial to you guys.
S: Right. But in fact, I think we’re in a really good state right now. Things such as our band unity as well. At one point I think we were all over the place. Surprisingly, it was really something when we made GEMINI. Compared to that time, we revived our unity like a band should. We were able to recover the things that we originally possessed. It’s similar to the atmosphere when we made VANDALIZE. Thoughts such as “Let’s do something different from before” and “We can’t just stay like this,” we experienced a crisis of sorts. With those thoughts in mind, we solidified our existence as a band.
-You mean if you can’t advance as one unit you can’t overcome barriers?
S: That sort of feeling, yes.
-Even if there’s no particular reason, there will be times when you feel subtle distances within the members, even if the band continues for years.
S: I think that’s natural. Approaching our 10 years, each one of us is coming to grow as an artist. Naturally as a band our responsibilities are divided into 5 parts, but individual members will stand out on their own. So…it’s not like we want to do solo activities separately, but rather our individual egos shine out strongly, and each one of us produces our own thoughts and sounds. I think that compared to each individual section, there are specific areas that shine out clearly.
-So you mean during the process of making music, there’s a temporary feeling of being disjointed?
S: Putting it simply, within the band our separate motivations all tie together in the end. Speaking for myself though, after creating GEMINI I’ve crashed a bit.
-Because it’s something you’ve put your all in and exhausted yourself?
S: I think that’s half of it. The disconnected feeling when making that album, wasn’t it a bit discouraging…it was that sort of time. Because of that, making “9” was a type of rehab for me.
-Rehab?
S: Yeah, actually we didn’t have thoughts like, “what kind of work do we want to make” at that time. We had to continue pushing the limits of how our band exists, “whatever it is we must make something.” It didn’t feel strongly like doing work (like a job), but more of a “if we don’t try our hand in it we should just stop!” With that in mind we made “9”.
-So you mean “9” was created to recover your health?
S: Exactly. GEMINI was really tiring in many ways [laugh]. I wonder why?
—For the Alice Nine of that time, it was certainly an album that pushed to guys to your limits.
S: Yes. But I don’t think that’s the only reason. Examining the album, I realized there are many songs that I created. For instance, even with Hiroto’s songs I had a hand in it. Honestly, I don’t particularly like that. It’s rather boring. At that time, we couldn’t produce many songs, but with such results we were satisfied.
-Within yourself, even for things that don’t have definite proof, pointing out the sweet spots from an objective point of view and giving criticisms without reservations…you want people who can give you those things right?
S: Exactly. To that extent, recently Shou-kun’s been really fussy about the melody and Hiroto’s not believing in my slump, telling me “I want you to do it like this and that.” Somehow everyone’s been saying these annoying things! [laugh] Buut anyway, it’s fun, doing stuff like this is a good thing. It’s definitely better than people not saying anything.
-Somehow I don’t know if you’re talking about things that make you glad or angry [laugh].
S: Ahaha! But these are words that can be said after having various experiences together. I think it’s better that they say these annoying things. [laugh]
-You like paying attention to these details, I wonder why.
S: Yes. I think it’s bad if we’re not being fussy over how we function as a band. If our band separates and I have to do it by myself…it may not be as troublesome [laugh], and I would be able to create music just as I planned. However, without everyone’s bothersome opinions, things wouldn’t make sense within myself in regards to the band.
-It’s boring to create things only as planned. At the same time, saying things like, “I’ll leave it up to you” also gives you a bad feeling.
S: Aah, there’s that as well. In actuality those things are also said. That’s probably what I wish for myself, but it’s not good in regards to the final results. Even though we have all kinds of expectations when making songs… people will say to members, “Alice Nine makes rock music like the good old days, right?”
-There are all kinds of interpretations.
S: Well, these words are complimenting us, but I think we’re more of a band that makes you think, “Aah, so they can create that kind of atmosphere?” Even though we’re perceived as a band that always make that kind of music, it’s not really what we want. Taking that tiny chance, “I want to something different”…actually we only say those things. To the extent that K-pop artists use their advertising power, “Aa if we use all 4 of us we would become more popular.” [laugh] When we think about things that are “frustrating, but cool,” there are lots in this generation. If you think about it in that manner, you encounter lots of chances everyday. Changing the topic, recently, the desire to create rock music after listening to rock has declined. Instead, I want to try making rock after experiencing all kinds of other things. Music is like this- after being stimulated by words, movies, etc. you’ll feel motivated to start. You won’t feel tied down to all the things within yourself.
—If you make rock while listening to rock, perhaps you’ll translate something that you felt was cool with your own words.
S: Right. But for me, even though I love Gundam, as the director said, “Making robot anime after watching robot anime isn’t very interesting.” I don’t remember the exact quote since it’s fairly old. But anyway it’s something like that. It’s hard for me to explain properly, but according to the director, Gundam wasn’t created with the idea of making a robot anime. He used the good qualities of stories unrelated to robots, live-action movies, etc…
-And so after coalescing all those ideas, Gundam was born?
S: Yes. The meaning is along the lines of that. And right now I completely understand his stance.
-I see. In the end, you were influenced and stimulated by all kinds of things, and as a method of reducing your music to its origins, it’s probably something that will endure for many years.
S: That might be true. Before we definitely created rock music after only listening to rock. We used reasons like, “We need music like this for lives” to make songs. But after thinking about it, we’ve started creating completely different music…as expected we weren’t sure if fans would accept such songs.
-It’s alright surely. “Hello, World” addresses that.
S: Ahh, perhaps. [laugh] For instance, we’ve gotten conflicting responses to Daybreak’s coupling song, Himitsu. Although there were people who thought it was a great song, we also heard, “Is it really necessary for Alice Nine to make such songs?” But still, even with SHADOWPLAY people thought, “Isn’t this metal? Does Alice Nine really need double bass drums?” Even for songs that aren’t particularly out of the ordinary, people will say all kinds of things. If we do songs that are generally “like Alice Nine”…In any case it doesn’t matter what kind of music we make. It’s not like we’re trying to deceive fans, but I think it was implied. If we always say “it sounds like…”, will it really turn out like that in the end? Actually we’ve probably always done things like that.
-It’s not necessary to tie yourself up by thinking self-consciously “it sounds like…”
S: That’s why I don’t think that deep into it. Even if you don’t give it much thought, it’ll turn out fine. Although other members might still be giving it a lot of thought.
-In actuality, you probably didn’t want people to think the song “sounds like” anything, but it still shows, even if you try to hide it temporarily.
S: Right. We don’t lightly consider things like the directionality. Of course we think about the entire picture.
-Referring to the previously mentioned Himitsu, the conflicting opinions you received was also fun wasn’t it?
S: That’s right.
-You guys probably predicted such opinions to arise.
S: We definitely did. Every time, we look forward to those comments appearing somewhere. Of course we’re glad to hear praises and someone saying, “It was a great song!” but it’s also boring. Personally, I think our band likes those conflicting opinions. We’re a band that’s constantly evolving. But as we change, aren’t we a band that’s always trying to make listeners understand us? I think artists like that are great. U2 and Radiohead, even Japanese bands. Anyone can just continue changing, but those who leave behind a perfect product and survive, those people are highly respected. But those who continue to change are also really brave. For instance, destroying what you’ve succeeded in and making something new. I think leaving behind what you’ve already created is amazing; that’s what rock music is all about.
We try to think about how to communicate our intentions, how we want to validate our mutual feelings.
-Doing things with such a progressive attitude, even though you didn’t want to experience the feelings you had after making GEMINI, you felt them twice.
S: Right, if we experience that one more time… we might even break up [laugh].
-I’m confident it won’t happen if you’re able to laugh while saying that.
S: Actually our previous company president told us from the beginning, “You guys need to work on your communication.” At that time we thought, “Is that so?” and half-heartedly believed him, but now looking back his words were pretty accurate. This problem showed up in our music as well. I think it’s our weakest area.
-Do you carry on with the thought of “We’ll continue with the five of us forever”?
S: Or how should I put it, the feeling of “If it’s not the five of us we won’t do it” perhaps wasn’t felt so strongly, at least initially. For now, after seeing the band come together, being able to rile up listeners fairly well, being able to sell CDs, being able to contract with a record company…having encountered such good fortune, we never had the reason to discuss serious topics like that. In the past we carried on without such questions in mind. After being asked, “Will you really not continue if it’s not the five of you?” I really don’t know how to properly answer. Don’t we often get told in interviews, “you can’t make music unless it’s with your current members”? I don’t really know. We still don’t know, so we don’t have an answer! I think it’s because we’re only at our 9th year. But as we continue we’ll definitely begin to understand. Lately as we listen and examine our past sounds, the results have become like that. Honestly, we have confidence that the music we make now is better than what we made before. However, to what extent we’ve improved, since we don’t know how many years we’ll continue looking back, it might just be a tiny improvement. That’s why we’re aware that we’re in the middle of a process that includes many ups and downs.
-Things don’t always happen in a convenient order that you want. If you communicate your intentions in the beginning you won’t experience such things, but particularly for this band if you started gaining momentum before that, no one would be able to grow so much during the process.
S: Right. As we stopped to look back, we began to understand things more and more.
-But “we don’t know if we will continue as the 5 of us” is a really courageous thing to say.
S: Perhaps. Interestingly, when we listen to other bands, we get it! Thought such as “we can only do this with the five of us”. We understand it from a fan’s perspective. But for ourselves…so far we haven’t seen such objections. When we hear people saying “I love this band” we want to believe that, and we’re honestly happy. In the end we can’t say things like that lightly.
-In the previous issue with Shou, he said that he’s accepted his complex of not having a strong musical background.
S: I also think that’s true. Vocalists tend to be troubled by that.
-And he said, “If I don’t do well [writing songs] I’ll just be a nuisance to other members.” Those words actually came from “I don’t want Saga-kun to make singles unreasonably anymore.” Like he wants you to only make things that you really want to make.
S: Aah, there’s certainly times when I’ve felt that way. Singles are definitely something that you don’t get to make the way you want. Nonetheless, if music that come from major recording companies don’t sell well, making singles wouldn’t have any meaning right? During our indie days we thought that simply making cool songs and proclaiming, “How’s that!” was great. But understanding and making major music, it’s something that must be transmitted to people. Since I have these thoughts floating around in my brain, making singles is quite troublesome.
-Well…saying this without fearing it’ll be misunderstood, sometimes you may feel uneasy leaving it to other members and think to yourself, “If I don’t make it, it’ll be bad.”
S: There are times when I think “It’s not suppose to go that direction,” and “Didn’t we already do this before?” when I listen to their demos. The biggest thing is, “Didn’t another band already do something like this?” Since I really hate that, I end up making the songs.
-Even now you may still have a bit of those thoughts, but your song writing responsibilities have been mostly reduced. What do you think of that?
S: Well, everyone has really contributed all kinds of opinions. For instance with [shooting star], we were able to break away from what we usually do. Along those lines, we didn’t feel uneasy or worried like before. If we can destroy barriers and create genre-less, alternative music, no matter what the plan is we’ll be able to handle it. After that… when we try making new sounds, we won’t fall apart. Similarly, Shou dislikes it if we don’t do things like that. I often get that feeling so I completely understand. However, if we go at it without reservedly thinking things through, we’ll also be able to break down these barriers. We won’t dwell on “who made what song.” But from the bottom of my heart, I want to be someone who provides guidance [leadership]. For the members as well as the fans.
-You’ve personally had lots of ups and downs, and you’ve seen other members hit low points. From here on after, for example, you’ll be able to predict when Shou is experiencing his own inner conflicts won’t you?
S: Right. He’s been dealing with some things himself. However, it’s not really about how many more songs I’ve been contributing compared to others, but that I must communicate my thoughts to the members. This is my message in regards to music: Beyond the fans, I’ve got to face the band even more. In other words I have to treat the band the same as I treat fans. When members tell me it’s good after listening to my song, fans will experience a similar feeling. They’ll be able to grasp it from the same perspective. The band members are my first listeners. On the other side are the fans.
-That’s because there are no dishonesty with music. There’s no such thing as lowering hurdles for fans.
S: Right. I think many bands easily fall into that trap. If you give up doing what you like, no one will be satisfied in the end. These things do happen. I’ve concluded that you have to tackle these problems with all you’ve got. That’s why making singles is hard! The more you notice how hard it is, the more difficult it becomes. I think bands like U2 and Radiohead are amazing exactly for that reason. They’re so highly respected, because they push new boundaries with not only their albums, but their singles as well. Naturally there are pros and cons for doing it this way, but isn’t that why they survive? That’s the scope of things. Of course for us it’s a different perspective, but nonetheless I still think they’re amazing.
-If you say it like that, the process of creating these series of singles, even when you confront those difficulties there’s still a lot to learn.
S: Right, within these 3 singles…the title of [Daybreak] isn’t something that’s catchy on purpose, but the song really is something that resembles the breaking of dawn. Again this time the mood is different from when we made “9”. The atmosphere within the band… somehow mixes feelings of an impeding crisis with positivity, in a good way. Both sides are present now. It’s necessary to be hungry and to have no hesitation in destroying certain things. Of course these are also things that you experience during the difficulties of creating singles.
-For example, what kind of parts?
S: For instance, during meetings when we choose which songs to make into singles and I naturally bring songs that are pop and commercial. That’s totally bad. If I don’t use the same awareness as making albums, no one else will agree on the things I really think are cool. However, since they’re singles, isn’t it meaningless if we don’t evoke some empathetic response? That’s definitely the hard part. We were troubled over these issues while creating songs such as [shooting star]. But in other words, we still haven’t found a solution.
-If it’s a good song you’ll use it as a single. It’s probably fine to do it so simply. But in regards to how it became a single, you don’t do it without feelings of dissatisfaction.
S: That won’t go away. Actually that’s why I continue to be troubled even now. [laugh] When I make easy to understand songs that says, “I’m trying to make a single,” everyone immediately exposes me. Even now! I wonder how in the world I made songs like [RAINBOWS]. [laugh] Although it became a single, we continue to play it at lives…songs like that become singles. I’m not talking about stuff like the type of lyrics it has. What our band finds valuable are songs that gradually hold great meaning.
-But it seems like you don’t know what kind of song is representative of you.
S: Exactly. That’s why it’s difficult. [laugh]
-So now, the concept of the next album is beginning to be like a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
S: Of course. Personally, I think it’s like redoing [GEMINI]. I don’t mean making a long song again, but making something conceptual… For “9” it was like a rehabilitation that didn’t have a concept for once. That’s why this time we want to exceed [GEMINI] while doing an extension of it.
-Digesting your experiences after [GEMINI], your blood and sweat…in addition you want to make something that exceeds that work.
S: Yes. With the same motivations and facing the same goal, we want to progress while breaking and destroying various barriers…if we can make an album like that, it will probably be the best one so far. With that in mind, it’ll be good if you can experience the entire album like how you experience [shooting star]. Although I don’t know if that’ll be a good or bad album. [laugh] Probably beyond that, I think it’ll be something that will remain for a long time.
-Nevertheless, it’ll be something that the Alice Nine up until now was not able to make. At the same time this year, you’ve reached your 9th year of formation. I think to some extent that has influenced your self-consciousness.
S: Nah, I’m not the type that pays attention to what anniversary it is. [laugh] Of course it’s a big thing for the band and it fires us up, [laugh] but rather, it’s like we’re celebrating every year as an anniversary. So it doesn’t feel that different. Well of course we should celebrate our 10th year, but after that point we won’t have a chance until our 20th year.
-Although words like “20th year” casually fly out from your mouth, isn’t it because you’ve experienced so many ups and downs these past 9 years? After hearing you talk today and reaching this point, from here on the future seems pretty clear.
S: I also have the same thoughts. Some time ago we were talking about Mucc’s Tatsuro-san, but that band’s already passed their 15th year mark haven’t they? I think it would be great to continue like that. Of course all kinds of things happened within those 15 years, but seeing how great those guys look now, isn’t that the most important thing? Namely, what is it that allows them to have such a long process? We also want to do that, such as going around Asia, continuing to face new challenges, and always giving off a fresh feeling. If we can come close to that ideal, it would be quite reassuring.
-Conversely, you want something to tie yourselves to the next generation right? Like leaving behind your own mark.
S: Right. Recently, there are many cool young Visual Kei bands! Although they debuted after us, we’ll be going forward with these bands.
-There are many times when your eyes are directed to the next generation. It will be rough for the health of your band so you’ll need to extract all kinds of information from your sources.
S: That’s what I think too. Certainly the health of Alice Nine is a bit rough. Of course we don’t know whether we have a perfect condition or not at this current time. However, compared to before it’s definitely better, and our communication has improved slightly. [laugh] Even if it’s a little, certainly it’s something that we would have welcomed before. Of course this happens with everything. But we’ll continue to improve our communications from here on, since it’s possible anyone will fall into a slump. We’re humans after all. I’m not saying that it’s not scary at all, but it’s not something to be entirely afraid of. Our relationships are become more and more like a family, and we’ve come to understand our mutual flaws. However, we’ve had discussions about separating from the band before. These are life talks that everyone goes through. But after having such talks, our mutual understandings have also deepened. Thinking about it now, in the past we’ve always regarded such mutual feelings as only something that we “plan to understand”.
-If you only talk about music, you won’t come to understand these relationships.
S: Yes. We’ve come to develop relations similar to comrades that experience pain and joy together. With all this time that’s already passed, I don’t want to see us using excuses such as “we have different goals” and falling apart. [laugh] Rather, if the time comes for our band to end, I want it to be because we mutually dislike each other. Nonetheless, if there’s such a moment like that someday, I completely do not think about it right now.
Translation credits: hellotime-being
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