-Previously while envisioning “the same flavor as always,” according to those whom passed through the same doors as you, there were more times when you weren’t aware of such miscalculations and before that you didn’t seek to change.* From the start you talked about the most conflicting parts at once, but doing so while being able to laugh, doesn’t it mean those many years of conflicts are starting to clear up?
Shou: I think so as well. Something I’m able to say from my position… I probably wasn’t trusted as much by the members once before. But of course you won’t be able to hear such words from everyone.
-It’s not something that can be overlooked.
Shou: How do you say it… Well, I’m adding the main melody to songs more and more. But I noticed that even if I don’t, we’ll still continue on a good path, since members who compose songs will often add the melodies themselves. But it’s not a bad thing, since they do it unconsciously. It’s not like they have negative attitudes or criticizing words for me, and they’ll simply say things like “you came up with a good melody.” But creating songs is really personal, it’s where your true feelings emerge. That’s why for a period of time, when members added in the melodies or made more long songs in the interludes, I lost a bit of confidence. It’s not that I was completely useless, but it felt like I wasn’t trusted to do everything.
-Seems like you’ve been thinking about this too much.
Shou: When we initially formed, our stance was that we wanted to hear the vocals more than each instrument. Even when we made mixes and such, the song turned strangely so loud that you couldn’t really hear the drums. When the songs received such special treatment, for me personally it was like “crap”. [laugh]
-Hey, don’t put yourself down like that. [laugh] Actually, self-asserting your own instrumental part, I think that happens even if everyone has confidence in each.
Shou: Mhm. You really want to emphasis that band-like, rock-like feeling and that’s one way to do it. However… rather than not having faith in me, I think it’s more accurate that I’m not being relied on. The part that I sing is only one part of the music we create, and originally there wasn’t any intention to stress its importance. Nevertheless I think it’s natural. Now when I listen objectively, I have thoughts like “it doesn’t have to make this band sell.”
-That’s kinda masochistic, over thinking things like that. [laugh] As for me, Shou is the one within the performance team who makes me think, “There’s absolutely no problem if he’s responsible for the melody and capturing a world view in his lyrics.”
Shou: Surely that may be true. But…speaking my true feeling, since this is “ROCK AND READ” I’ll say it [laugh], personally I don’t have that much confidence in myself. But after lives we’ll often watch a recording of that day’s performance and have a review meeting, and for about the past 1-2 years I haven’t been becoming undone as much during lives. That’s why on the contrary, I can feel like I’m more confident than before. I’m also trying to write songs on my own and improve others’ demos saying things like, “I think the melody will sound better if you do it like this.” Since I’ve been more proactive like that, recently everyone arranges songs that once again are “originated from vocals.” With that I’ve realized, “Aah, so it’s like that huh.” [laugh] That’s why at least now compared to before, I’ve gained confidence.
-Of course it’s not like other members were conspiring something together, they each have different ways of thinking.* That’s why instead of Shou yourself, it’s not wrong to focus on building a strong relationship of trust more than the music aspects when trying to progressively create something.
Shou: Yes, I think so too. Even if it’s like that…I also really think we’re a band that’s been grasping for a solution for a long time. [laugh] But I think our current feelings are close to those we had around the time of our first album [Zekkishoku]. Well, we’ve probably surpassed our various complexes and battles. At the time of “9” we also continued like that, but we outgrew our complex of being treated like an idol-band and other conflicts we’ve been grappling with. On top of that we were able to have confidence in ourselves, and experiencing reality objectively, I think we’ve gained the ability to broaden such experiences.
-The band’s probably had thoughts like, ”We’re not idols. Don’t treat us so lightly!” and fought against these unwavering perceptions. In addition, up until [GEMINI] and [“9”] you’ve created with Okano-san, I think it was quite like wearing armor into battle after not wearing anything before.
Shou: Aah, that’s true.
-Rather than strengthening what you guys had in the beginning, you’ve become more like a cyborg that’s incorporated new kinds of weaponry. And as a result, isn’t it like gaining a new muscle [strength]?
Shou: Right. That’s why those two times have been like training our muscles, creating a new plaster. [laugh] And I think it’s great we did that. But at the same time there are also characteristics of what we did in our teens; that’s the nature of being human after all. Within our music activities, we don’t have thoughts like, “We want to do it like this, so we’ll continue doing it.” I’m venturing to say this bluntly, but didn’t several songs from [GEMINI] have the persuasive power of bands like Matenrou Opera more than ourselves?
-You’re saying it to that extent! But it’s definitely an easy to understand comparison. [laugh]
Shou: In the end, they’re the only ones who have that kind of persuasive power, people who enter that kind of world with the philosophy, “We won’t do anything but this!” I too want to hear the songs they’re able to make.
-In other words, improving upon the things you don’t have, you can’t escape the fact that “this time Alice Nine challenged heavy metal.”
Shou: Exactly. Actually, even if there are members who have metal rock foundations, there are also members who like alternative music. Even though everyone’s interests are scattered like that, when the five of us come together it comes out naturally. It becomes really melodious… I’m exaggerating a bit, but it’s like everyone happily doing rock. That’s why it’s like the public image of Alice Nine’s music. We tried to negate that image in the past, but it’s part of the band’s essence after all. In the end, I feel that we tried to fight that essence.
-Several times in the past, I remember hearing you talk about similar conflicts. Still, when you guys didn’t know who you really were, saying “let’s be dazzling like flowers,” being able to say that your essence hasn’t changed after experiencing so much, I think it’s different based on your perspective.
Shou: Yes. For the band doing all kinds of different tunes, since there are members who want to try various things, I think it’s good to do things with such a change of mind. It’s ok if we don’t stick to a particular genre. But whatever we do, it doesn’t change our essence. Eventually, since we gradually changed while always thinking the same things, what we said countless times in the past came about.
-I see. Of course this isn’t a criticism so please don’t misunderstand. But using this example since it’s the easiest to understand, it’s quite noticeable that Tora’s songs lean towards heavy metal. Still, using these songs for this band, they aren’t really representative of metal and don’t stick to the theory of metal. If everyone tries to grapple with this on top of understanding it, you’re not borrowing a style, but using it as a means to an end.
Shou: Actually Tora’s the only one who spent his teens listening to metal. Even Nao didn’t think the day would come when he would play two bass drums. [laugh] Hiroto as well, even though he doesn’t dislike metal, he says things like “it’s the sound farthest away from me.” Saga is very academic so he’ll objectively analyze “what is metal”, but may not actually be able to do it. Metal is also a genre that’s far from me. In the beginning during my teens, I liked singing in lower keys, which came from UK rock’s languid moods. I didn’t go through metal at all. Honestly I didn’t really mesh with people who gave the feeling, “Let’s do stuff like Halloween!” But on the other hand, I’ll occasionally feel envious of people who chose a different path from us.
-In this band’s case, the degree to which you like or hate something varies from person to person. In regards to metal, you each have a different feel for it. For instance the music that Shou likes, there aren’t other members who like it for exactly the same reasons. It may lead to some fragility for the band, but it’ll lead you to interesting places as well.
Shou: Right. I think it’ll become a strength for us now. After all we have confidence in each other. No matter what style of songs we do, I’m confidence that our core is unwavering. Whatever genre songs we decide to do, it may not be done that way completely, but in the end it still becomes our music. I think that’s perfectly fine. Of course we may have to give hints, “Is it metal or perhaps electronic?” in explaining our music afterwards, but we’re definitely not thinking, “Isn’t metal something new for us?” The feeling of “no matter what kind of songs we do, we’re still ourselves,” I think we’ve already turned this into our strengths. Everyone’s starting to understand what responsibilities each of us should to carry for Alice Nine.
-Regarding your true essence, what it really is, no matter what it’s the same. In other words, you’re not thinking, “In this world since we want to aim for this position, let’s do it with this direction in mind,” but more simply “let’s do fun things like it’s forbidden.” That’s why you guys make songs now with feelings similar to when you made your first album.
Shou: That’s right. We’ve finally returned to that place. After struggling so long we’ve finally arrived.
-Changing the topic, you’ve also reached the point of “If I sing, any song will sound like Alice Nine.”
Shou: Well if you can’t say that, it’s truly bad! (laugh) That’s what I’ve always thought. I also often think, “I’m already older than the age when Luna Sea members made that album.” [laugh] Even though I don’t want to think about that, I still do. Take [Himitsu], the coupling song of [Daybreak], for example. The song is something completely different from what anyone imagined I would sing, but when I try singing, it becomes Alice Nine. Saga said this to me. Those words made me so happy!
-Listening to that song for the first time, before you could hear the vocals, there’s probably no one who would realize that it’s Alice Nine. But when you hear Shou’s voice, there’s no doubt it’s Alice Nine.
Shou: Mhm, I think it’s become like that now.
-There’s no need to be modest. Rather, you’re allowed to say, “if it’s me singing, you’ll understand.”
Shou: Hahaha! I might say stuff like that when I’m a bit drunk. [laugh]
-Although we’re in the middle of an interview, but why don’t we have some wine? [laugh]
Shou: No no, if I’m drunk I’ll really only say things that can’t be published. [laugh]
-This is a bit of a digression, but what are you like when drunk?
Shou: Members will say- scary. [laugh] Normally I respect the harmony of my surroundings, but when I’m drunk that’s not the case. [laugh] But people will often tell me things like, “when you drink it’s interesting.” That’s the case in my previous interview. It’s probably true that “I’m actually a guy that holds darkness inside.”
-Eeh. I said something like, “Don’t you turn the bad desires of people who aren’t bad into your motivation?” At that time Shou said, “I’m actually darker than everyone thinks.” [laugh]
Shou: Right right [laugh]. Since then I’ve been thinking often, “Exactly what kind of person am I?”….Actually after that happened, my grandmother passed away. Just before she died around 4 o’clock at dawn, she called me suddenly saying, “You really are a kind child.” After about 15 minutes, I received a phone call from my mother letting me know that she just passed away… After such an incident, I’ve been thinking shouldn’t I live as a kind-hearted person? Even though I definitely have dark parts to my personality [laugh], after my grandmother decided that I’m a “kind child,” I felt that I had to live life like that. Of course for humans, I think everyone has his or her own darkness. I’m aware of that. Even though it wasn’t until such a troubled time that I was told, “You’re a good person,” I’ve really been thinking, “Exactly what kind of person am I?” But my mentality has changed after such an incident. I really have to live as a kind person. Well without mistake, I do have that aspect so I shouldn’t deny it.
-Your kind aspects. There aren’t any falsehoods there, probably.
Shou: Right. Moreover, among those who are close to me, I think my grandmother was the most important person. But this probably has nothing to do with the topic of our interview.
-Nah, this is actually better, getting you to talk about such personal feelings. Being a kind person, it doesn’t mean to shut out your dark parts, but to be honest with yourself. At least this is your case.
Shou: That’s right. Somehow within myself the feeling of “doing something for someone,”…even now thoughts like “Why am I doing music?” run through my head…If you ask that for others in the same profession, it’s probably like trying to pick a fight, but for me it’s become my best motivation. Of course I do it for the fans, but before that, I seriously consider what it means for the members. As friends, as human beings, I really love them. I think they’re all talented and love music more than me. In my case, I’m quite messed up in that regard. Rather than simply loving music, it’s more of a voice fetish or mix fetish. [laugh] That’s why I’m not the type to extensively look into music.
-Like the criteria for your taste in looks is the collarbone or something. [laugh]
Shou: Right right. Such as, “I like the way this person takes in breaths!” [laugh] For music, it’s like the work of Chris Lord-Alge (mixer and producer). It’s a very specific taste, a slightly strange way of treating music. In comparison, I feel other members of Alice Nine are more interested in music completely. What I want to say is, regarding those darling close friends of mine, I don’t want their talents to go to waste, I want to remove the obstacles that are hindering everyone from progressing. I want everyone to bring into the world only works that they desire to create- I want to help do that. That’s become the biggest motivation for me now. Creating songs by myself… honestly, it’s because I don’t want Saga to make singles unreasonably anymore.
-Whether Saga is really doing this unreasonably or not, from the standpoint of being able to song-write while unaware of that, he can still create interesting works. You’re probably thinking about all this right?
Shou: Yes. Well if he can create songs that just happen to turn into singles, I think that’s wonderful. He’s basically the type who can amazingly just read the atmosphere. On the other hand I’m the vocalist and completely skip over stuff like music theory, since I predominantly focus on the melody. These songs often become just like singles. They’re considered to be worldly, single-like. If I can bring songs to our band meetings even if they aren’t used in the end, other members, especially Saga-kun, will feel more at ease. That’s why I’m trying to create songs and bring in more demos. I might be glossing over my words too much though. But doing things like that, wanting to be a kinder person and having to live for other people, I’ve been really thinking about these things in a new light.
-Going back to what we were talking about in the beginning, for Shou-san it’s “I want to love.”
Shou: Eeh, this talk’s topic has really returned to the beginning. [laugh]
-But thinking about it actually, you’re really blessed. Since you’re doing a band while being surrounded by people you want to love.
Shou: You’re right, I’m really fortunate.
-That thought occurred to me all of a sudden. You write songs for the sake of everyone’s happiness. In the past perhaps other members carefully considered how they shouldn’t rely on you too much, but recently they’ve once again been naturally making music with the feeling “the song is the origin.” I think they also want to make you happy as well.
Shou:…Those feelings, it’s like reciprocally throwing something towards each other. Like playing catch-ball. For instance recently, not the sound mixing parts, but for the artworks and music videos, I’ve being doing almost everything. It’s not that they’re making me do everything, but probably that they trust me doing it. For instance I’ll say things like, “If you do it like this Tora would look much cooler,” and consider the visual aspects of not only myself. I have confidence in these matters more than other aspects. Other members will also be able to trust me after perceiving such things. I’m also trying to be like this for those essential areas within our music.
-At the same time members will also give you opinions that are like from a producer’s viewpoint.
Shou: Right. Definitely with [Daybreak], Tora brought it to me saying, “Shou doesn’t normally use this singing key, but I think it’ll sound really great!” But I thought, “That’s HIGH!” [laugh] Although we brought it down half a key, what matters isn’t about how high I should sing it, but throwing ideas around like catch-ball.
-That’s wonderful. It’s really about loving one another isn’t it? [laugh]
Shou: Hahahah! That’s true…
-It’s not about only feeling love within the members, there are probably also times when you have negative feelings and fight. But hearing you talk now, I think you guys have a really great relationship.
Shou: Right. Well even so, I can’t say if it’ll turn into hatred someday. [laugh] For example, if I ruin the song another member makes, it could really happen.
-Certainly. Just now you were talking about working on the artwork and music videos, was this something that started from [Daybreak]?
Shou: Although it varies quite a bit, I’ve basically been doing this since when we first formed. This time, our 2nd single [SHADOWPLAY] after changing record companies, so far I’ve been doing the work that’s usually been left to experts. Without the so-called “art director”, I’ve been trusted to make all the judgments. So to speak, the plan was “I’ll thoroughly do everything.” Of course for the PV we got supervision from some directors. Although you could see the parts that I devoted myself to, we also had discussions like “Shouldn’t we do it like this?” that went much deeper than before.
-That’s a really healthy way of approaching things. It may be rare to hear this coming from the mouth of a musician, but only those intimately concerned would know how you really want to convey your music. If a third party comes in without understanding your situation, you would get a lot of different results.
Shou: Exactly. It doesn’t mean anything if I just attach some cool design from somewhere. I need to make artwork and music videos simply from our sounds. Well, saying this in turn, for [Daybreak] we went along the lines of what the director from our record company thought of. With the artwork as well, the company used designers that they recommended to complete the work. In a sense, “When in Rome do as the Romans do.” Although it may be bold of me to say this, but speaking frankly, we also undeniably give the impression that “we’re still naïve.” I was in the track club once. My personal best for the 100 meters dash was 10.9 seconds. Running that fast, those who ran around 12 seconds speed seemed to have stopped. That’s what it’s like for me. It may be rude to say, but I feel like I’m always running ahead.
-Of course that’s not saying you were dissatisfied with [Daybreak]’s artwork, but before changing companies you guys were probably looking forward to how things would be managed.
Shou: Exactly. That’s why I’m glad it turned out like this. Our director definitely helped partner us with all kinds of artists. For instance the designers even worked with groups like EXILE. Aiming with such a plan in mind, we became really interested in how things would turn out. Of course talking about going “so fast it seemed to stop” I’m not referring to the level of design. Naturally, it’s about going so far that I can’t even catch up to myself. However, for instance there are different ways to interpret Visual Kei. From childhood listening to it and doing a band only from there, that’s based on your own individual experiences. That’s why in order to create a band, shouldn’t it fit your own skills? On that note, I actually did the artwork for [SHADOWPLAY] myself. Even I think it may have been a shrewd way of doing things, but it’s like we took the promo photos and other visual work along with [Daybreak], if you’re comparing the two. When I do things, it turns out like this.
-I don’t think it’s shrewd. It’s simply a manifestation of approaching the artwork with a serious “do-or-die” mindset. The point is, “the quality is beyond my ability of course, but it still seems like I don’t know things regarding the band.”
Shou: Right. [laugh] Things like who the influential leaders were, seems like I didn’t know from the beginning. Of course, I understand everything. Meaning we still do things alright, since releasing CDs is under our responsibilities.
-Right now (this interview was conducted in the middle of March) you’re just about to launch your third single right?
Shou: Ah, by chance yesterday we had a meeting about the PV. We talked about “bringing this idea properly to life, it may have to look a musical.” On the same day, Saga-kun unexpectedly Tweeted about musicals. It made me quite happy, realizing that my feelings were communicated. I don’t think anyone will think of musicals listening to the song itself. It’s not necessarily that kind of song. But in spite of that, I was shocked that Saga shared the same vision as me. It seemed as if our consciousness were linked.
-That song hasn’t been completed and it’s not like we’ve heard everything, but was there a reason for choosing [Daybreak] as your first among your three consecutive single releases?
Shou: Actually, we had to decide whether to release that song or [SHADOWPLAY] first. If we choose the latter, it’s certainly in line with the expectations of those who listened to [GEMINI] and [“9”]. From the start we made [SHADOWPLAY] using metal rock methods in mind. To the end, we used Alice Nine’s foundation of melody as the axis point along with a metal approach. That’s why the mix doesn’t sound completely like metal, and those who truly love metal will say, “this is completely different!” Well, it’s Alice Nine’s nature to create music that makes people happy. That meaning is also implied. It’s not a song that represents change, so we thought that it’d be better releasing [Daybreak] first.
-Those two albums do tackle a rather metal-style. It seems that you’d probably use that method this time as well.
Shou: I think so too. [SHADOWPLAY] came from the experiences of those two albums.
-It’s interesting that [Daybreak] came from Tora-san, who usually makes a lot of metal songs.
Shou: Definitely. In the beginning this song actually had a funky vibe. The reason the song’s atmosphere changed so much later was largely due to Hirade-san (producer). We don’t want to say such boastful words like, “we did everything with our own merits.” [laugh]
-We were talking about [Himitsu] before and how Shou’s voice makes it something that’s Alice Nine. Isn’t it also true for this song?
Shou: I think so too. That’s why here as well Hirade-san stepped in to help arrange. Gradually, he’s also heavily influencing the sounds that each member is obsessed with. Hiroto’s guitar somehow stands out too much, to the point that it’s a bit laughable. [laugh] Together with things like that, he’s brought Alice Nine to places we haven’t gone before. He’s carrying more such responsibilities. Hirade-san also does the mixes himself, which I think is something that’s extremely important for producers to handle.
-Because that doesn’t result in different interpretations right?
Shou: Right. Talking to us, Hirade-san completely understands the sounds that we envision. In that regards, there’s no middlemen to complicate things. [laugh] There’s less filtering. I think that’s definitely a plus.
-Well, I don’t think Shou’s vocals have changed that much here. But your lyrics really give a straightforward, honest impression. The extent of putting words you want to say from your heart into the lyrics, I feel it wasn’t really there in the past.
Shou: That’s exactly right. It’s something I’m starting now after always considering before, “what kind of single does everyone want to hear?” However… our talk’s going in a loop since this isn’t what we were talking about just now, but trying to scrape off the extraneous parts, my mentality’s definitely becoming “we don’t need to wear armor to battle anymore.” Furthermore, I already know how to write lyrics to make the song sound cool. What kinds of words to compose, I knew that this single would become something cool. That’s why I could write without feeling pressured.
-So while writing the contents of the lyrics, you didn’t have problems regarding your mentality or things directly connected to you?
Shou: Right. I felt it was fine just using my own words. [laugh]
-You won’t have any problems with that. Compared with Saga’s autobiographical [Hello, World], I think this can also be put into its own modest category. [laugh]
Shou: That definitely was like Saga-kun’s “one-man documentary.” [laugh]
-Thinking about it now, starting from that song, perhaps Saga’s already been asking Shou, “Isn’t it better to just spit out words honestly?”
Shou: Ah…if that was the case I would like Saga-kun even more, but he probably hasn’t thought about it to that extent. [laugh]
-Hahaha! For [Daybreak], overall the lyrics weren’t particularly shocking, but every turn was filled with parts that made you gasp. The band seemed to be standing on the edge of a cliff, it suggested a feeling close to giving up, but more than anything it gave the deep impression of “because burdens can become wings.” The title itself means “the breaking of dawn.” Normally it’s suitable for a new starting point, and recklessly you would want only expressions of hope. But you also sing how in this case those hopes are actually burdens.
Shou: That’s exactly what I wanted to sing. If it weren’t for these 8 years, I definitely wouldn’t be able to sing with my true feelings like that. I really think those lyrics are a projection of myself right now. Since I express myself too straightforwardly I use English parts as well, but singing that is just “I want to give people happiness*.” Is that desire an essence of myself or perhaps fate… I’ve been thinking along those lines. It’s actually aggregated in the English lines. More than whispering sweet words, I want to strongly express “I want to give you happiness” through my singing. Oddly, I don’t care if I turn into an annoying guy like that.
-Even as you continue the band from here on, do you feel your lyrics are becoming “only what’s unknown in this world”?
Shou: Day after day I feel that way. Meaning there are still many things to discover. Even saying things like this now, probably in another year I’ll think, “so that’s what I said in the past..” [laugh] Really, living up until now, as if I’m underwater and trying with all my might to break through the surface, I can’t get a sense of how far I’ve progressed. But even if that’s the case, isn’t it because I’m still living right now? What should I do then? While thinking about this and that, it’s clear that I’m not in a state of zero. For instance even though I don’t know how far I’ve advanced, I know that something has certainly progressed. I want to believe that there are still a lot of things I don’t know about in this world. There’s no mistake those are my personal feelings.
-For instance, I think that when it’s hard for the band to see concrete changes in your surroundings, as they say “only time can tell”. But during such a time, something’s definitely changed as long as you swim with all your might.
Shou: Right. Or rather I want to believe in that. But not in a light tone like, “let’s believe it!” What I strongly want to say is “don’t throw this world away like that!”
-It’s not so much “we may think nothing’s changed, but we’ve definitely progressed” but more like “things we’ve done like that, they’ve probably changed right?”
Shou: Yes. For us, it’s not that we’re living idly and waiting around. Even if we can’t see our final destination, we’ll still face somewhere unknown and continue on.
-From our current talk’s topics, I’m assuming the message of “I want to give you happiness” is not just towards listeners, but other members as well.
Shou: Of course they’re included. In addition, people like the involved staff and my family are also included. According to the results we deliver, I think there are people who are changed, who are given happiness because of us. That’s why the band continues on like this.
-And so for those people, the feeling of anticipation for Alice Nine becomes a burden as well as wings.
Shou: Ah, that’s right. I accept the presence of burdens. Originally I had the thought, “Those who aren’t burdened with anything, won’t they fly to higher places?” Regarding the fan’s encouragements, if they don’t feel anything they may become indifferent. If I wanted to respond to their support even just a little, I’ll feel pressure as well. But I want to bring everyone to higher places, and in the end that pressure becomes wings for us. That’s what we feel. We want to bring everyone to new heights. We want to show everyone an even better world. Although I often say these things, they’re my true feelings, and the lyrics I wrote for this song, I believe they’ll fill up the empty spaces of our time until now.
T/N: *The literal translation of the phrase he uses is not “I want to give you happiness” but “I want to make you happy.” But the English connotation of “I want to make you happy” suggests the speaker may be surrendering into the receiver’s desires instead of simply giving them something. Also the “happy” he uses isn’t just a “I feel good” feeling but a “blessed” feeling. To me there’s an important distinction so just wanted to point this out.
Credits: hellotime-being
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